"A Conversation on Purgatorial Remediation "

As postulated by David Bently Hart & George MacDonald

July 7, 2025

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Excerpted from a conversation at Liberal Christian Universalist where someone posted this from David Bently Hart [That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation (Eerdmans, 2017)]

This question was put to Heart: "Do you suppose there will be a post-mortem purgatory or purgative experience, especially for those who are actively resistant to God."

He replied. "I am a little surprised one needs to ask. I thought I had been explicit enough on the matter in the past. I have been more remiss than I realized. I know of no real tradition of Christian universalism that does not entail the belief that all of us must be progressively conformed to the likeness of God, through purgation and transfiguration, in this life and the next. All the classical universalist figures understand ‘infernal’ imagery as referring to the refining fire of God’s love, consuming our false selves, our evil impulses, our egotisms, and—as Paul says—those works that will be burned away. How else could a free spiritual being become holy without ceasing to be a spiritual being, and without ceasing to be the person he or she is?"

In response to another question, Hart stated: "I do believe that there are many persons in whom the impulse to love has been all but extinguished; I do not believe there is any in whom it is ever entirely absent. Wherever there is will—and that includes even the most depraved and damaged of wills—there is a prior transcendental yearning for the highest Good in itself, and that small spark can be blown into flame again. Even the vestiges of a person, still constitutes a person crying out to be rescued from the devastation of his or her soul. I believe also that there are personalities so damaged that the reconstruction of their humanity and their personhood can be accomplished only by the all but total destruction of the psychological selves they have created for themselves; and that, as Bulgakov says, heaven and hell exist in all of us in varying degrees until at last the former overcomes the latter; and that some, as Paul says, are ‘saved only as by fire’; and that Origen and Gregory of Nyssa and Isaac of Nineveh were all quite correct on this score; and that—if Christianity is really in any sense a true teaching—God will be All in All, and that means God must finally be God known as the Good within every will and mind."

My reply to Hart’s "I know of no real tradition of Christian universalism that does not entail the belief that all of us must be progressively conformed to the likeness of God, through purgation and transfiguration, in this life and the next."

Obviously, he is ignoring those of who believe otherwise when it comes to afterlife remediation and can support our belief scripturally. To say he knows of "no real tradition" is a display of ignorance, or even worst, arrogance. Hart is being as absolute as those who say "you must be born again."

The problem is that we just don’t understand the fullness of a God who equals Love. As finite beings we tend to think in terms of human parental love, which limits our thinking. We can however say, “I don’t fully understand how God as Love works, but I do know it is beyond my comprehension. That said here is why I believe ….” It is all speculative. We won’t know until we know. For me, immediate harmony with God upon death makes more sense – scripturally and logically – than does some sort of purgatorial remediation. But still, it is speculative, not absolute.

We need to be careful not to bring our preconceived dogma to the teaching of Jesus, who after all is the one whom we seek as Christians to emulate. Let’s begin with the words of Jesus and go from there. For me the keys passages to immediate harmony are found in the Luke 15 parables of “Lostness,” especially the “Prodigal Son.” You can’t be lost if you haven’t first belonged. I do believe in a progression of becoming more Christ-like, that we traditionally call “sanctification.”

The original poster then posted, “(I) love to understand your and other’s perspective. But it was in MacDonald’s Dante lectures that he made most clear his belief in a purgatory. ‘I do indeed believe in a place of punishment,” he told an 1890 lecture audience, “(B)ut that longing and pain will bring us back to God … There is a deep truth in the soul undergoing Purgatory in order that it may return to God—in whom we live and move—at all times (Wingfold Winter 2015).”

My reply: With all due respect to MacDonald, I do take exception to MacDonald here. In a nutshell I see two immediate problems with the idea of purgatorial remediation. First, and the most serious; It negates the pure love of God. In the Prodigal Son, the father stopped the son from confessing and immediately called for the ring and robe. No confession, no remediation. This is Pure Love. Second: Purgatorial remediation demands and atonement (ours, not God's) and is based on the notion that sin separates us from the love of God that that we must be punished for that. We call it "purification," but it is still punishment. I hold that we are never separated from the Pure Love that is God, that flows from God. We may separate ourselves, sometimes quite drastically, but the moment we stand in the presence of the Divine we are enveloped in that love. Jesus came to demonstrate not only the what God as Pure Love is/means, but also how we are to live as one wrapped in that True Love.

My feeling is that MacDonald is human, as are all those who propose theology, and therefore I read what they say speculatively, always open to disagreement. Further, there is no reason why I can't also speculatively propose my own theological ideas.

Several weeks ago, I preached a sermon on the Prodigal Son, “Two Sons & A Father”. It is a sermon on always present love of God, rather than a sermon on Universalism. But it might help you understand some of my thinking. Next Sunday, I’ll be preaching, the title, “Temporarily Lost” again on Luke 15, this time all three “lost” parables (it will be posted on July 14). The underlying theme is: Nothing can be lost unless it first already had a home. Nothing, no one can be lost if they did not already belong. Nothing, no one, can lose their worth just because they are temporally not where they belong. We are lost when we forget to whom we belong, and we live out of our darkness. We are lost when we find ourselves outside of where we belong.